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Author Topic: "Understanding" Shartak's Foreign Gibberish. -Research Project by Tracer  (Read 10592 times)
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Tracer.
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« on: July 17, 2011, 02:46:18 AM »

An Island Research Project by Tracer

Understanding The Gibberish That You Heard When You Were A New Player, And How Pointless It Is To Try to Decipher It Without A Person Acting As A Translator (Gotta love titles that make you feel so great about yourself like this)

Before you begin reading this... I will tell you what my findings were...

Language skills with the current language system, are not threatened by anything other than translators and well skilled people. In essence, knowing what the so called "Gibberish" means, won't help you understand it any more than what an uneducated person already heard. What I mean is, you will NEVER understand this gibberish without language skills, because of how this system works.

I also found some errors in the Shartak wiki article titled, "Language", but those I will discuss later on.

So now... I will go into the technical details.

Warning: I have not done in person testing of this, due to lack of volunteers, so all examples are using two sources, one from the wiki and one from the forums, which I will provide at the very bottom. This may be proved to be false or flawed, but hopefully some of these observations will hold true.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


The system of it works according to a kindof botched pattern, this pattern is not the same for a native speaking gibberish to an outsider or vice versa. Both use a certain form of translation of singular letters (not combinations, I will explain more thoroughly soon)

As you see on the wiki, the data on it is somewhat useful as well as being flawed.

Let me start on one of the two not so simple patterns... Outsider words translated for Natives

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Overall Process of Discovery

The first thing I noticed, was that all words kept the same first letter, no matter whether they were in gibberish or an actual word.

Next I noticed, that all words starting with the same letter, had the same set of letters in them.


Example: barluneth=bullet
barnuh=blunt
bunches=barnuhhumshur
barraringshur=berries
barthi=bottle

As you can see, they all start off with, "bar", there is no other similarity between the words other than that first letter (that I can see that is, if you see something just say it). Which led me to the conclusion, every first letter has a meaning that never changes.

Below is a list of the translations that I personally have found for Outsider->Native in the course of this research.

A=Ar
B=Bar
C=Cu
D=Du
E=Eth
F=For
G=Ger
H=Hum
I=Ing
J=Juh
K=Kar
L=Lun
M=Mun
N=Nuh
O=Orr
P=Puth
Q=???
R=Rar
S=Shur
T=Thi
U=Uh
V=Var
W=Wuh
X=???
Y=Yun
Z=???

Now, what got me thinking was the letters that came after it. Originally I began thinking, "It must be some form of letter combination that just drops off the first letter." now, think about it... How many different combinations can you make with 5 letters, easily put, you would have hundreds of them. So really, why would Simon put hundreds of thousands of letter combinations together just for a game? Along with... If it took into account letter combinations, why aren't the last two letters of every two or three letter word counted?

So then, frustrated with these findings that it might not be translatable for anyone with an average lifespan... I looked over the words again, this time I noticed something, the 2-4 letter pieces of gibberish, weren't completely foreign, they were repeated multiple times in different places through different words. They were in fact the same 2-4 letter pieces of gibberish that were used at the very beginnings of the words.

So then I began to look at the letters again checking over to make sure I wasn't mistaken. So a thought was placed into my head, "What if it only looks at single letters?" now... Looking at it without thinking too hard, many would say, "So the other letters are completely ignored?", well in a way yes. Some letters in the words, do not have any meaning in the gibberish form, which is why you wouldn't see my name as, "THIrararcuethrar"

The reason I capitalize the first four letters is... If you ever noticed when you were a mere newbie, foreigners saying, "ICK'lal" or "ING'lun" (which both mean in their respective gibberish forms, "I'll"), then you noticed that this system does not take into account capitalization errors. It also proves that punctuation breaks up a word's translation for this gibberish form.

I digress though, the words though may not have a translated meaning to them, they function in a different way I have found. They work as a placeholder. The sequence as I have noticed only picks out certain letters of words of varying lengths.

EDIT: I have also made another discovery concerning this matter just now at July 17 at 7:18:55. The letters that are/will be used, if they are right next to each other are never consecutively used, which helps out the choosing between letters such as "boTTles" or "driftwOOd", this however as I have seen so far, does bend the counting between the letters provided they are in a layout that could cause such a thing. Prime example of this being explained later on in the seven word Native to Outsider section, is the word, "sixteen", it ignores the fourth letter being used, and makes its own pattern by using the third and fifth in addition to the first and seventh, instead of just using the fourth in addition to those two. Just to note however, seven letter words of Native to Outsider version seem to be the only one that can bend the word's order in the pattern around (I do not include four letter words into that because it does not change the whole order of the word, it just changes the last set of letters.)

PLEASE NOTE: The above section will hopefully be investigated, as there may be an error on the wiki which would void all mention of this "word bending" and make the form of; 1, 3, 5, and 7 the only form for 7 letter words.

However, as I stated before, in every single word that I have seen, there is no use of two letters in a word that are right by each other being used in a row, for an example, the reason I know this is, in the outsider to native form, we see, "driftwood" become "dufororr", which leaves the question of, "Which "o" does "orr" belong to?", well to figure this out you will need to look at another nine letter word, such as "pointless" or in outsider to native gibberish "puthnuheth", both are nine letter words, but, first the p is used as "puth", the "n" used as "nuh", and most importantly, the seventh letter, "e" being used for "eth". This proves that, the first "o" is used unless it is the extremely unlikely case of this single word being the only rulebreaker to the Outsider to Native nine letter word pattern.

Below I will include how words up to ten letters function in being translated into gibberish.


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Breakdown of the pattern by word size of Outsider to Native Words

One letter words, only use that one letter.
Two letter words, only use the first beginning letter.
Three letter words, only using the first beginning letter.
Four letter words, the first and third or fourth letter. (From my observations which is an educated guess, it depends on what the two letters in question are, if the third letter which is the default used letter is not allowed to be with the first portion, it will use the fourth letter. Hence why we don't see "cuar" used for crab instead of "cubar" or "gershu" used instead of "germun" for gems. Proof that it works with the third letter as well is as follows, "gerlun" means "gold", "cuing" means "coin", "humrar" means "here".) The words mentioned in the example prove that it can work either way, but you'll see why even not knowing exactly how that works wouldn't help you at all. (This could be wrong though provided someone botched the wiki article)

Five letter words, from every example listed that I have seen from my two sources, are always using the first letter and fourth letter.
Six letter words, use the same, they bend the rule sometimes the first, and fourth letter.
Seven letter words, are where as I've seen it gets tricky to figure out. It uses the first, third, fifth and seventh letter of the original word. Proof of this you may ask? Here are a few...


"healing" in gibberish form according to the wiki is said to be, "humaringger". Breaking it down... hum-ar-ing-ger. Hum is the h, the first letter. Ar is the a the third letter. Ing is the i which is the fifth letter. Ger is the g which is the seventh letter. Another example you may ask?

"bunches" in gibberish form is written as, "barnuhhumshur". Which broken down is formed of, "bar" for the first letter, "nuh" the third, "hum" the fifth, and "shur" the seventh. Now going on with the pattern...

This is where the pattern really begins to get strange. An eight letter word, will only use the first, fourth and seventh.

An example would be, "shurarhum" which means straight. Breaking it down, shur-ar-hum. Shur the first letter, ar the fourth, and hum the seventh.
Another example, "fabulous" which in gibberish would be written as, "foruhuh". Breaking this down, For-uh-uh. The first letter if f, the fourth is u, and the seventh is u once again.

Strangely enough though, the pattern stays the same for nine letter words. Only the first, fourth, and seventh are used, yet again. An example is listed below.

"pointless" would be written in gibberish as, "puthnuheth", broken down... puth-nuh-eth. P/puth being the first letter, N/nuh being the fourth letter, and E/eth being the seventh.

And finally this is where I ran out of data for doing these gibberish decodings, the ten letter word... Strangely enough it maintains the same pattern, but it adds on the tenth letter to the gibberish (making it 1,4,7,and 10). Another example is listed below.

"sharpening" would be written in gibberish as, "shurrarnuhger", breaking this one down... shur-rar-nuh-ger. Shur/s being the first letter, r/rar being the fourth letter, nuh/n being the seventh and g/ger being the tenth.


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Conclusion of this section
This is where my knowledge of the Outsider to Native gibberish stops, to conclude on this... Every letter has a two to four letter gibberish translation. In every word though, not every letter is used for its meaning, but they do ALL function as a placeholder. The pattern may be very erratic, but taking it as far as I did, it holds true in all of the true situations.

End of Outsider to Native Section
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Native to Outsider Gibberish

After figuring out those results, I moved onto the other half of the work, knowing they would be similar in some ways, which was proven the same with the first letter always being the same. The outsider and native gibberish however, do not use the same gibberish forms of each letter.

Below is a list of the translations.

A=Ack
B=Bak
C=Coo
D=Dal
E=Eck
F=Fal
G=Gak
H=Hok
I=Ick
J=???
K=Kam
L=Lal
M=Mog
N=Nik
O=Ock
P=Pok
Q=???
R=Rak
S=Sik
T=Tam
U=Uck
V=???
W=Wick
X=Xal
Y=???
Z=???

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pattern Breakdown for Native to Outsider speech

As before the first three are all the same.

One letter words only use that one letter.
Two letter words only use the first letter.
Three letter words only use the first letter.

Much like before, four letter words seem to alternate between using the third and fourth letter in them. However they do still use the first letter.
They do not however use the same rules when it comes to alternating, because as in this example... "crab" is written as, "cooack" which as can be seen, uses the third letter, instead of the fourth as used in the Outsider to Native Speech section.

Five letter words, as mentioned in the previous section of breakdowns, use only the first and fourth letter. As seen in examples such as, "ethrar" meaning "extra", "baknik" meaning blunt, and "falsik" meaning first. I believe that you all can break these down at this point if you have been actually reading through this entire thing.

Six letter words work exactly the same, they all use the first and fourth letter such as "poksik" meaning "poison"

Seven letter words is where the pattern is extremely strange and I have not been able to test for any other words that might use a different letter than those listed, so here are the ones I do know. They use only the first always, sometimes the third, sometimes the fourth, sometimes the fifth and always the seventh letter. This can be seen in words such as, "sixteen" or in its gibberish form, "sikxalecknik" or the word, "machete" or in gibberish, "moghokeck", proves the fourth letter. (Edit Notice: I notice I said something about cutlass as an example of the fifth letter, but that was a mistake on my part, as I didn't see that "l" of "lal" in the gibberish form of cutlass so just use "sixteen" or "sikxalecknik" as an example of fifth, and I didn't notice "xal" in sikxalecknik, meaning the letter "x" is used, it being the third letter.) As I explained earlier, this amount of letters can somehow break the rules of the ordering, which is why I say, "sometimes". PLEASE NOTE: This section will be put under investigation hopefully at some point in the future, as it may be suspected that there is an error on the wiki. If the word Machete is found to not be "moghokeck" and instead "MacheteS" is this gibberish form, then the only form is 1,3,5,7; and never being first, fourth, and seventh for seven letter words.

Eight letter words it seems to get more clearcut. In the two cases I have read on it, it appears to always be the first, fourth, and seventh letter. The two cases that I have seen, are "fourteen" which in gibberish form is, "falrakeck" and, "blowpipe" which in gibberish form is, "bakwikpok".

Nine letter words seem to follow a rule of, using the first, fourth, and seventh. As demonstrated by, "poisonous" which in gibberish form is, "poksikock".

Ten letter words seem to use the first, fourth, seventh, and tenth letter. This is demonstrated by a word such as, "sharpening" which in its other form is, "sikraknikgak"

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conclusion of Native to Outsider Speech

It does work very similarly to the native speech, only with differences in what letters are used out of a word, and what each letter translates to. They both follow the same system when it comes to make this gibberish. This too proves to be quite erratic and uncertain, but what I have shown here are as factual as I could possibly know through this research.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Analysis Conclusion

Understanding what this gibberish means would not prove useful at all for anyone, that is unless you want to play a game of hangman with yourself and someone else's word.

So if you think you can solve it... I'll give it to you as a challenge so you can see how "easy" it is for yourself.

Outsider->Native
"Gernuh Shuring Arar"

And to make it a little easier for you...

G _ _ N _. S _ _ I _. A _ _ A _ _. (Please note, in game, you don't get those spaces. All you would know is, "GNS SI AA", so you would not know for sure the length of the word)

(Solve this one without using an outsider friend, and you are a champion hangman player. Also, to simulate the challenge more... You only get one guess, and I won't say if anyone gets it wrong or if they get it after their one guess. That's how an outsider walking into your hut and saying something can go, he might be declaring war and about to kill you when his AP regens or he might be entirely peaceful. You'll only find out if you got it wrong after someone says the right answer.)

Now anyways, away from the fun and games... This ensures that language skills are required of at least one person in a mixed room of natives and outsiders, or else everyone will be extremely confused and possibly lose their skull/scalp/torso/hands/eyes/life.

Understanding how this gibberish works would only benefit anyone in Shartak by only being able to tell people who don't understand, "It is not worth it, to conduct research on this, as it is pointless."

If anyone sees a fault in my research however, please point it out with some evidence to prove it, if you'd like to contribute to the missing letter translations, go ahead if you like, it's pretty pointless anyways. Before I forget though... Here are the errors I noticed on the wiki.

Native->Outsider
"dalgakecksik" means dagger? I'm pretty sure that "sik" means "s"
"baktamlalsik" means bottle? I'm pretty sure as well that "sik" means "s" yet again. Same goes with, "baktamlalsik ock rak" which is supposed to mean bottle of rum.

EDIT: There may be another mistake which would completely change the rule behind the word bending of the seven letter and erase any mention of it. "Machete" should use the first, third, fifth and seventh as suggested by the other words, but on the wiki it does not, it is shown as "moghokeck", which in fact uses only the first, fourth, and seventh letter, which exactly mirrors the rule of eight letter words and not the original seven letter words, meaning it would seem the person meant to put up "machetes", and not "machete"


To Neil and anyone else who edits the wiki: It would be very good for the wiki and the community as a whole if this possible mistake could be investigated. I'm not going to force any of you into it, but a little investigation on this would be very helpful for the point of this research analysis.



EDIT: There is an error in the Outsider->Native section, I will state it in a post, considering I have hit the character limit with all these edits on this single post.



Hopefully these findings will prove that understanding this "gibberish" is pointless, as even if it were letter combination... I doubt any one of us would figure out all of the combinations before Shartak ended, much less every single one of our lives. Though, based on this data, it proves it's just as useless unless you want to play hangman by yourself all day and lose a lot rather than level up a couple times and get some language skills.

If there are any questions, please feel free to ask me here, in PM, or IRC.


Sources:
http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Language
http://forum.shartak.com/index.php?topic=2511.0

-Tracer

EDIT: Keep in mind, I am still adding and removing information as I review this. All of what is written is true to my knowledge unless I express some sort of doubt in the respective section.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 09:01:05 AM by Tracer. » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2011, 03:33:16 AM »

I nominate this for thread of the year.
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 04:05:49 AM »

I nominate this for thread of the year.
seconded, this was an amazing read! thank you tracer.
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 04:20:09 AM »

I nominate this for thread of the year.
seconded, this was an amazing read! thank you tracer.
third-ed.

Also, GIANT SQUID ATTACK
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I think trawling is appropriate because the classes feel like being in a pool of sadness.


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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 05:17:18 AM »

Thanks everyone for the notice, and I must say, anyone who gets offended by the very small Easter Egg, it's merely a joke at the fact of how long ago people had started wondering how the gibberish mechanic worked, and how all that time people spent wondering about it, like in the second source, was not practical to even be solved (if this is indeed the correct way it is formulated) being that deciphering this gibberish only gives you a couple letters out of a whole word.

I nominate this for thread of the year.
seconded, this was an amazing read! thank you tracer.
third-ed.

Also, GIANT SQUID ATTACK

And honestly, I must say Muad Dib... You are the GREATEST HANGMAN PLAYER ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET. First guess out of everyone to guess and he gets it, dang... Did not see that one coming. Simon, give this man a badge for that kind of skill (Mostly joking, though I'm sure he'd like it).

Well anyways, if anyone has any language samples (now that you know which parts are already known) that include any of the letters that weren't listed.... Post them here if you would like.

But really, holy hell Muad... That was just pure awesome, so now I'll give you another challenge... This time I won't make it easier Tongue

Outsider->Native

"Humnuhmunnuh Ger"


Good luck Muad, if you get that right... I think we'll need a topic more capable of containing concentrated awesome.
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2011, 05:33:37 AM »

Yes!



I dedicate this (squid-ish) victory to Team Tathers! The most manly clan in the island!
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I think trawling is appropriate because the classes feel like being in a pool of sadness.


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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2011, 09:02:04 AM »

(Posting this edit here, because I have hit the character limit on the first post)

EDIT: Seems I found another possible mistake this time within the Outsider->Native section which I previously thought was without error, which could influence the 4 letter word grouping and ensure that the first and third letter are always used. Gerlun=Gold, Cuing=Coin, and Uhing=Unit; these four letter words, all use the third letter. Now, in the case of the word crab, it uses the fourth letter to make the bar section of cubar (c=cu), and this is the only case that a four letter word uses the fourth letter, which strangely enough, first and fourth letter used are the rule behind five letter words. This leads me to believe that the person who put that up there, meant "crabs" and not "crab".

(I may use this post for further additional edits provided no space frees up on the original post.)
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2011, 12:23:58 PM »

Fascinating stuff.
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2011, 04:19:28 PM »

So that's what you've been up to all this time.
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2011, 04:48:48 PM »

XD

It took him one night to manage that

Tracer is an excellent researcher ^_^
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2011, 06:01:24 PM »

XD

It took him one night to manage that

Tracer is an excellent researcher ^_^
Well I didn't want to sound cocky about it... But, yeah, I did it in one night (the same night I posted it). It actually took me longer to write out that post and give all the evidence, facts, mechanics, and conclusions than it did for me to realize how it worked and write out all the meanings of the first letters of words that I could find.

Keep in mind though, I don't know how words over 10 letters can work, but from what I can see, all of the sections where I have confidence there is no errors in my data sources (Or in other words, not the 4 letter words in both sections, and the 7 letter section for Native->Outsider, as those two might have errors due to one letter ("s") might have been overlooked when translating the gibberish. Words over 10 letters though, I can give the extremely likely educated guess that they all follow the "No consecutive letters used" rule just like the lower ones. Though I am entirely sure that they follow the same mechanic of picking out a single letter from certain places in the word, and then turning them into gibberish.

Also, I will say on my conclusions though without a doubt, this research will not help anyone out really unless you want to have a multitude of words that could have been used. This does not get rid of the validity  of trader dialogue though, traders have a limit on what words they can say. This article however shows that it would be entirely useless to try to and apply that to character x character dialogue as we can use any word out there that we like.
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2011, 09:45:10 PM »

:O

Astounding. Well done.

Bookmarked!
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 05:03:17 AM »

Well done Tracer.
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 03:20:02 PM »

barnuh=blunt
bunches=barnuhhumshur

Bunches is just Blunt with humshur tacked on at the end there. Coincidence? Or irrelevant... or irrelephant!?!?!
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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2011, 04:49:40 AM »

I think 'well done' as well!
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