Spirit Fence

[Etherdrifter]

I'll ask again, Ether - you do realise you're not a real necromancer, right? Otherwise, why the kneejerk reaction to any suggestion that has the slightest implication on perceived 'spirit rights'? Spirits as an RP model are fantastic. Your clan success is testamount to that. Spirits as a game mechanic suck balls. Improve the interactions available with spirits, and you improve the game for ethereal and corporeal players alike.

Not really much of a kneejerk.  More a "it's hard enough as it is don't nerf us further".  Jack-o-lanterns already mean spirits get screwed over, farmable pumpkins just made it worse.  If you want to start adding "interactions available with spirits" then by all means do so, all I have seen so far are suggestions to further restrict spirit players, nothing that extends their gameplay options in the slightest.  Want my support?  Then suggest something that fixes the problem.

If these suggestions, the spirit nerfs that are bouncing around, were to be implemented then you may as well just remove spirits entirely from the game.

(I have $10 on someone quoting that last line and saying "what a good idea", because it's oh so predictable)

[Dani]

I've grown to like the use of spirits to a degree. But I'd never agree that jack-o-lanterns screw spirits over. They screw shamans over because exorcism is one of the few useful things they can do. I don't know what you did before jack-o-lanterns grew all year, but combined with no character limit it would have been the golden age of spirit griefers and zergers.

[Neil Tathers]

It was.

Spirits are the kings of griefers.

[Killian]

Jack o lanterns are more of a last resort because they perform a shadow of what level 30+ shamans can do. In most cases, they won't even need to check their maps to readjust themselves. Ribbed orange spheroids don't threaten the shamonopoly. They're a supplement, not a substitute.

Some spirits have nonexistent pharyngitis, but most who play are benign. In fact, the funniest one I remember was a fist shaking feature by Iceman. I enjoy the RP opportunities spirits open and have some high quality spirit RP squirreled away on a hard drive. It fits the island theme very well.

I'm not suggesting to confuse one percent for 100 and put a leash on all spirits, but because people die when they are killed, and spirits don't, griefers keep going scot free. The best we can hope for now is that they accidentally hit the revive button.

[Etherdrifter]

It's more one person can walk into a building, use an item and ruin an rp scene that gets me about the lanterns.  At least with shaman they have to be a reasonable level to get the skill.  Extra buffs would just make an already difficult role harder to play, I can honestly say I've never really had a spirit griefer around, exorcists griefers yes, but not spirit ones.

Here is an odd concept, a bit off topic but in the same spirit as it were.

Change exorcism.  Using it on a spirit that is not on the tile it was on when it died returns it to that tile.  A spirit on its home tile shows up differently as "a spirit floating around some bones" and, when exorcised, is re-trapped in its body (laid to rest) and can only escape for a set ap cost (I'd say 30ap (reduced to 25 by forceful possession) since it would balance with the living, not effected by the peaceful flag).  A spirit that is laid to rest gains a bonus, namely they can revive for half the normal ap cost (stacks with peaceful flag), to encourage players to take both roles as it were.

Jack-o-lanterns should simply keep the cast out effect and remain mostly unaltered, giving them any extra power would make it far too hard for spirits.

I would also say that exorcism should be targeted, not a one button griefstorm for any spirit on the tile.  To this end if a seance has been performed on a tile and spirits are marked as "identified" for the purposes of exp then they should show up similar to contacts until their player takes an action.  Exorcism can still target a random spirit but it's like attacking a member of the opposite faction.

Another note is "invoke-exorcise" cycles.  These are broken, badly so.  If exorcism is buffed invoke spirits needs to be rebalanced dramatically.  To whit I would suggest that if a spirits it invoked from a tile it returns to that tile upon exorcism.

And now the matter of tracking down spirits.  The exorcist is also given a message "You drive the spirit of X out and feel their spirit flee to the <direction>.

Finally what about the outsiders?  They gain a new skill called "burial" for all outsider classes.  It requires L10 and is a subskill of digging.  It always requires a shovel and the shovel has a 10% chance to break.  When used on a body (either one a spirits is trapped in via exorcism or just the freshly dead) it simply lays the spirit to rest (ergo has the same effect as exorcising a spirit on the tile it died on).  Do note that "a spirit floating around some bones" allows for burial.

For balance to be maintained all of the above is required, any one aspect alone is too unbalanced (cept for targeted exorcism).

[Witch Hazel]

...I can honestly say I've never really had a spirit griefer around, exorcists griefers yes, but not spirit ones.

This is what I am doing right now along with a couple of other spirits. I travel around from med hut to weapons hut but I still wail at them day after day. It really doesn't seem fair the outsiders really can't do much to us. York is a bit more stupid then most since they kill the shaman's that try to help.

[Cobalt Manticore]

Yes,

...I can honestly say I've never really had a spirit griefer around, exorcists griefers yes, but not spirit ones.

York is a bit more stupid then most since they kill the shamans that try to help.

Yes and this is why I no longer Help them, that is when I Remember to Not help them. Some of their problems are a bit more Fundamental. {Oftimes involving needing to free their spirits from their bodies first}

[deus257]

You know instead of a spirit fence they could instead add a feature where if you stay as a spirit for too long you either get sent to the sacred space if you don't attack anyone as a spirit or get dragged away by evil shadow monsters like in that movie "Ghost" if you do, and the only way out would be to contact the shaman, Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

[Raffles]

I don't like that you'd be penalised by the game for playing a spirit.

The reason I want Shamen to have more effective exorcism skills is that, unlike living characters, spirits cannot be meaningfully penalised by their peers. They are elevated above retribution. It's a question of Freedom vs Licence. You are free to hit someone or insult their parentage, but you are not protected in the event you chose to do so. Spirits are the class that are literally bullet proof.

I like the idea of the sacred space being some sort of afterlife. What they'd do there is anyone's guess though.

[Katie Calhoun]

I do like the idea that if any spirit stays in one place too long wailing then they are sent off somewhere like Deus is saying. I have one here at the bar that has been here for months which is just too long for any spirit to stay around howling. This last month 2 more have shown up so we are quite busy here healing each other. Raffles is also right that spirits shouldn't be penalized for being spirits but like he said they are literally 'bullet proof'. Yeah, I am at that point, damn if they do...damn if they don't thought. I don't want to harm spirits but I don't think they should be be able to stay for months on end wailing (attacking with damage) without some kind of consequence.

[deus257]

i agree with Katie, there should be some sort of Consequence to players who stay as spirits just to do whaling damage for months on end. Its not really fair for living players since we can't harm spirits and only repel them to only have them return later to whale again. Regardless I feel a solution must be made that is fair to both Spirits and Living Players.

[Etherdrifter]

Bare in mind the situation is the same when repelling home-town pkers.

[Dani]

Bare in mind the situation is the same when repelling home-town pkers.

No it isn't. You can still kill them and they take 25AP to revive.

[Etherdrifter]

Bare in mind the situation is the same when repelling home-town pkers.

No it isn't. You can still kill them and they take 25AP to revive.

Whereas it can take up to 30 ap at the moment for spirits to return to their current location?

The costs are similar really, no matter how you spin it.  The only difference is spirits clog up rp text more, pkers cause more inconvenience (1ap for 10hp (rewarding with 10 exp may I add) compared to 12 -24ap+ stand up and movement costs for a home shaman revive (no exp gained at all) this is assuming a person CAN revive at home and doesn't have to pay 25ap + movement to trek back from a wandering shaman).

I suppose there is another difference, a player gains exp from removing a home-town pker and a lot less from exorcism.  Then again that fits the relative ap costs.

Either way though, you're looking at things the wrong way.  Nerfing a player group is not the way to go, instead give them something different to do that would be more challenging but more rewarding.

[Cobalt Manticore]

Animal Possession!