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Author Topic: Bows And Crossbows  (Read 4834 times)
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Neil Tathers
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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2010, 01:44:23 AM »

The bow training should only bring your accuracy up to 45%, not the 60%, agreed.  I didn't even notice it the first time, I was too flabbergasted by the increase in Rifle damage.

And bow ammo should be found in the huts, not made.
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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2010, 02:06:17 AM »

I have a soldier who can tear through a native camp with what Twist just mentioned, pretty damn easily.  Soldiers are better than Warriors hands down, the rifle beats the blowpipe easily.  A soldier who carries one rifle is playing the character stupid.  I tend to carry 20 to 30 of them, loaded and ready to go.

I have no idea where you got your 1.5 damage from.  Honestly, I know you do some wacky math, but it's got to be wrong.

I'm all for some new weapons, but let's not break the current ones, shall we?



Damage per shot = 5
Ap per shot = 2
Max accuracy = 0.6

Thus 1.5 damage per ap.
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Neil Tathers
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2010, 02:14:45 AM »

It cost one AP per shot, not two.  Don't go counting the reloading as an AP per shot.
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Bobby the Hatchet
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2010, 05:11:53 AM »

So these would be available to all classes with no skills to increase efficiency? Just seems odd to give a distinct, combat advantage to any class without there being some rarity to it. If the ammo and bows are found in the Weapons Hut, it'd be too easy to get. Fletching from driftwood would be a little more difficult I guess. The heavy sword works out because it's a semi-rare investment. Maybe the bow and crossbow could be difficult to find as well, but the ammo would be available someplace reasonable.

I say make bows and crossbows a rare find, bound to certain areas determined secretly by Simon, and make arrows available in native Weapons Hut and bolts available in the outsider Weapons Hut. Adjust the search rates slightly to compensate for the addition. Adjust the attack rate and damage to balance. Make the weapons available for all classes with no skill required, or maybe a single skill. The ranged version of a heavy sword.

Not sure if I'm even sold on that alternative, myself, but maybe it'll get a few ideas rolling.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 05:23:25 AM by Bobby the Hatchet » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2010, 12:29:46 PM »

I think they should be hard to find like a heavy sword (hidden in a place like heavy swords), but I think you should be able to make the arrows out of driftwood.  Maybe 3 per piece of driftwood?
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Iceman
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« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2010, 09:19:19 PM »

Your maths is out. Balanced stance doesn't add 0.65DpAP to a melee weapon - it adds less than 0.1, assuming the 15% chance of a glancing bow for every missed attack stated in the game news is still correct. So for an accuracy of 45%, there will be 55 misses out of every 100 attacks, 15% of which will do 1D, which equals 8.25 glancing blows per 100AP. And the heavy sword does 2.25DpAP + glancing blow, not 1.75. This doesn't directly affect the new items, but when added to the rifle miscalculation, does throw the balance issue out somewhat.

That aside, I don't like the idea of a new set of items and skills that close the gap so drastically between combat and non-combat classes. It also seems that the ability to manufacture ammo outside of villages - whilst a good idea to distinguish these weapons from others - would be AP-intensive to the point that it would be easier just to head into town and stock up on bullets or darts. Driftwood is pretty rare except in specific areas, and even then takes much more AP to stock up on than bullets/darts due to not finding it in bundles, whilst dead wood is about as rare as rocking-shargle .

I think there's definite mileage in the increased weight/one projectile aspect though. If the numbers are jigged so that there's a small chance of high-damage hit, or a high chance of a small-damage hit - for when you're on your last AP and need that kill - then I think it would make an excellent addition to the game, both flavour- and gameplay-wise, in whatever form it takes.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 10:06:14 PM by Iceman » Logged

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Etherdrifter
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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2010, 01:44:46 AM »

Actually I was going on the assumption that balanced stance had a 0.45% chance of activation.

But I agree somewhat, though as things stand the rifle is still pretty outclassed by the blowpipe...
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« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2010, 10:27:48 AM »

Do you actually play a warrior and a soldier? I'm not being funny, just out of curiosity. I do, and I find the two to be pretty much in balance.
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Twist - boner-inducingly handsome | ClickClick - guardian of the Dalpoki | Sympathetic Phil - hard-bitten mercenary and surly drunkard |
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« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2010, 10:56:39 AM »

I don't care about the math part... I just want a bow to go with my Robin Hood profile picture!
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« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2010, 11:11:25 AM »

The easiest and quickest way is just to rename some weapons while keeping the same stats.

Blowpipe -> Bow
Machete -> Spear, axe, etc.

Boring? Yes.
Simple? Yes.
Adds flavour? Yes.
Easy to code? Yes.

I think most people want these to have a weapon that would fit their character, so stats can be left the way they are.
The only problem is the ammunition. If you add another type in the weapon hut, search rates have to be adjusted so that a soldier don't end up wasting AP for bullets when he wants to stock up on arrows.

It's simple with melee. If a search rate for machetes is 20%, make that into 20% of finding any weapon and calculate the type of the weapon afterwards (e.g. 10% for axe, 10% for spear, 80% for machete), like it works for glancing blow.
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Neil Tathers
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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2010, 12:49:49 PM »

You like to drive wiki people insane, don't you?
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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2010, 12:50:59 PM »

You like to drive wiki people insane, don't you?

Me? I consider myself to be a wiki person.
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Etherdrifter
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« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2010, 06:00:52 PM »

Do you actually play a warrior and a soldier? I'm not being funny, just out of curiosity. I do, and I find the two to be pretty much in balance.

Actually I've played both in the past.  I've not played them recently but my native warrior had some degree of success while my outsider soldier?  Bloody useless.
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Bobby the Hatchet
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« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2010, 07:52:10 PM »

I find the soldier to be pretty balanced as a fighter, although I had my gripes in the beginning. Of course, reloading is a minor nuisance, but anyone complaining about that, including myself, just needs to get out of that "I must kill daily" mentality. 20-30 rifles is a good standard to patrol with and most of us tend to conserve our bullets, only firing what we need to secure the kill and finishing the rest off with melee. And if we do have to unload, show clear, it's nice to have the option. I use heavy swords as well, which is a nice backup, entirely worth the effort to obtain and I've been rolling for a while with the deadly combination, no problem.

I feel that the classes are only as useless as you play them. A shaman can be just as successful at killing as a scout as a settler as a soldier. It's already been proven time and time again by those more legendary than myself. Soldiers can have a little bit of an edge from time to time, but anything more than they've got now would just be over-powered, and the civilians certainly don't need a bigger bite.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 07:54:13 PM by Bobby the Hatchet » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2010, 03:13:06 AM »

I don't think rifles need an increase in damage. I do think that the need to reload rifles compared to warriors that just grab and go is a total rip. Personally, I'd rather not have to reload and have half my inventory clogged with rifles.

Yeah, I also agree that the reloading thing is a bit imbalanced. But 7 damage is just absurd. That would make the rifle a good deal better at killing NPCs than the blowpipe is, and that's what the blowpipe is most effective at- it would rip player-killing balance between the two classes to shreds. The 1AP per bullet reloading should be factored in with the AP spent finding the bullets.
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