Shartak The Official Shartak Forum
Click here to play NOW!
May 22, 2012, 11:04:56 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Please read the forum rules before posting!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: General Sci-Fi talk (split from FFTBRPG admin thread)  (Read 1987 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jack Bauer
Full Member
***
Posts: 187


View Profile
« on: January 21, 2010, 09:46:57 PM »

though ds9>enterprise

Second that but we can all agree original series > the rest
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 11:17:42 AM by Tom Failur » Logged

I'm an American nationalist and a registered Libertarian. I've been called a xenophobe but I'm not. I just happen to believe America is the best country and the other countries just aren't as good, that used to be called patriotism.

"Two Jews walk into a bar and that bar was called damnation. Praise his name." -Rev. Jimmy

Are you ready to ask her that big question...."Will you get me another beer?"
Zeek
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 487



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 09:54:41 PM »

perhaps, but b5>startrek
Logged
Jack Bauer
Full Member
***
Posts: 187


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 10:22:26 PM »

perhaps, but b5>startrek

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Lord I haven't laughed that hard in a while.
Logged

I'm an American nationalist and a registered Libertarian. I've been called a xenophobe but I'm not. I just happen to believe America is the best country and the other countries just aren't as good, that used to be called patriotism.

"Two Jews walk into a bar and that bar was called damnation. Praise his name." -Rev. Jimmy

Are you ready to ask her that big question...."Will you get me another beer?"
Aguirre
Newbie
*
Posts: 34



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 12:28:56 AM »

perhaps, but b5>startrek
B5? Forgive my lapse of sci-fi ignorance.

That would be Babylon 5 I belive.
startrek TOS>>>>>b5 Cool
Logged

Viva unemployed!
Jack Bauer
Full Member
***
Posts: 187


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2010, 12:33:48 AM »

Speaking of star trek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=414TmP12WAU
Logged

I'm an American nationalist and a registered Libertarian. I've been called a xenophobe but I'm not. I just happen to believe America is the best country and the other countries just aren't as good, that used to be called patriotism.

"Two Jews walk into a bar and that bar was called damnation. Praise his name." -Rev. Jimmy

Are you ready to ask her that big question...."Will you get me another beer?"
Zeek
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 487



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2010, 04:48:34 AM »

yes rob, b5 is babylon5. you might have heard of it; it was the show back in the 90s where character's actions had long term consequences, and they all developed as the series progressed so that they were all diffrent by the end from who they were at the begining. but these guys are right, who needs character evolution and episodic continuity when you can solve almost every problem you encounter within 40 minutes? why sometimes they couldn't even solve them by the end of the season! it even took them most of the series to eject the warring elder gods from our galaxy. how inefficient. even worse, sometimes the bad guys won and the good guys died! how bassackward can you get? why without the good old tv drama formula, it had all this horrible suspence and intrigue! you never knew what was going to happen! anarchy! chaos! dogs and cats, living together! i tell you total breakdown of good, safe formulaic storytelling.
Logged
Jack Bauer
Full Member
***
Posts: 187


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 05:20:08 AM »

yes rob, b5 is babylon5. you might have heard of it; it was the show back in the 90s where character's actions had long term consequences, and they all developed as the series progressed so that they were all diffrent by the end from who they were at the begining. but these guys are right, who needs character evolution and episodic continuity when you can solve almost every problem you encounter within 40 minutes? why sometimes they couldn't even solve them by the end of the season! it even took them most of the series to eject the warring elder gods from our galaxy. how inefficient. even worse, sometimes the bad guys won and the good guys died! how bassackward can you get? why without the good old tv drama formula, it had all this horrible suspence and intrigue! you never knew what was going to happen! anarchy! chaos! dogs and cats, living together! i tell you total breakdown of good, safe formulaic storytelling.

What follows is a mixture of obvious sarcasm and nerd rage

Yeah why would I waste my time with a classic sci fi series that can withstand the test of time. No I want my shows to only be appealing to 15 year olds from the 80s. Who but a teenager, after all, could watch an EarthGov representative, who has just negotiated a non-aggression treaty with the patently evil Centauri, blissfully announce that "we will finally have peace in our time" without rolling their eyes? Who else would put up with entire paragraphs from 1984 being turned into dialogue for Night Watch representatives? Instead of having unique and stellar adventures every week I want a tiny piece of a 5 year story arc that is impossible to understand without watching every episode from the beginning. I like pointless character sacrificing and bad writing with obvious plot lines. Prime example of how this show is bull:palm:, the episode "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum" Sheridan discovers the connection between Morden and his wife, and Delenn and Kosh are forced to reveal to him the upcoming conflict with the Shadows. In the episode's final act, Sheridan is faced with a dilemma: if he releases Morden, he might lose his only chance of discovering exactly what happened to his wife, but keeping Morden in prison might cause the Shadows to attack sooner than they had planned, before the army of light can marshall their forces and mount a defense. Sheridan's choice to release Morden is a pivotal moment for the character, by doing so, he is committing himself to the fight against the Shadows and making the first of many painful sacrifices to that cause. It's a decision reached with the help of a history lesson: as Sheridan tells Zack, during WWII Churchill chose not to evacuate a city he knew was about to be bombed by the Germans in order not to reveal that the Allies had cracked the German codes. If we're to believe Straczynski (the show's writer), Sheridan's situation parallels Churchill's. Both men were forced to make a painful sacrifice in order to ensure the greater good. But, of course, the two situations aren't even remotely comparable. Churchill was forced to choose between the certain death of thousands of his citizens if he didn't order the evacuation and the possible subjugation of his entire country if the Germans changed their codes and the Allies lost the war. Sheridan is forced to choose between personal vengeance and the fate of the entire galaxy. Neither decision is easy, but only Sheridan's has an obvious right choice. In other words, Sheridan makes one of the most important choices of his life because he's a bad historian, and the fact that Straczynski expects us not to notice this plus the fact that he seems not to have noticed it himself indicates a sloppiness in his writing that tracks with my view of him as a big picture man who can't, or won't, build a proper foundation for the ideas in his mind. This show fails with the dialogue, the humorous scenes were as wooden and posed as an episode of Gilligan's Island, and the dramatic scenes invariably descended into monologues, and both were as far from realistic as it's possible to get.

Hey Zeek do you feel like Mario cause you just got one upped.

And Rob if you want b5 done right watch deep space 9, everything positive about b5 can pretty much be said about ds9.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 05:35:32 AM by Jack Bauer » Logged

I'm an American nationalist and a registered Libertarian. I've been called a xenophobe but I'm not. I just happen to believe America is the best country and the other countries just aren't as good, that used to be called patriotism.

"Two Jews walk into a bar and that bar was called damnation. Praise his name." -Rev. Jimmy

Are you ready to ask her that big question...."Will you get me another beer?"
Zeek
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 487



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2010, 08:39:18 AM »

ok ok i did read it, so here's a few unfairly simplistic responses
Yeah why would I waste my time with a classic sci fi series that can withstand the test of time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zKDQfVbWqc

Who but a teenager, after all, could watch an EarthGov representative, who has just negotiated a non-aggression treaty with the patently evil Centauri, blissfully announce that "we will finally have peace in our time" without rolling their eyes? Who else would put up with entire paragraphs from 1984 being turned into dialogue for Night Watch representatives?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Saddam_rumsfeld.jpg
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShoutOut

Churchill was forced to choose between the certain death of thousands of his citizens if he didn't order the evacuation and the possible subjugation of his entire country if the Germans changed their codes and the Allies lost the war. Sheridan is forced to choose between personal vengeance and the fate of the entire galaxy. Neither decision is easy, but only Sheridan's has an obvious right choice.
so sacrificing 1 city with thousands of people to save a country with millions of people is not the obvious choice. let's leave aside for the moment the various other countries that would have likely been lost to the 3rd reich after the american forces lost their strategically important staging area. which would have likley taken them out of the war for western europe and allowed the nazi regime to focus all of their energies on the eastern front. and let's also leave asside whether or not this would have allowed them to conquer russia, that's a tossup. generally the only folk tough enough to live in russia are the russians. those mother:palm:ers can survive anything.
anyway, leaving all that asside let me try to help you, since math is apparently not your strongest subject;
thousands<millions

Hey Zeek do you feel like Mario cause you just got one upped.
that type of joke is only funny when someone else tells it. it has to be an independent third party congratulating you on being witty and clever, rather than bragging about it. it's kind of like the difference between getting a blowjob and masturbation. though looking at that ragegasm there, it appears you might not be the best person to understand that analogy.

And Rob if you want b5 done right watch deep space 9, everything positive about b5 can pretty much be said about ds9.
you may notice that those things were also things that were generally never done in any other star trek show. this is because back in 89 when straczynski tried to sell it to paramount, they turned him down as they were busy with tng. years later, they took the notes he gave them when they were looking for a new show and used them as the base of ds9. ds9 is awesome because it is a ripoff of the b5.

in closing, i like startrek. tos was a good show for it's time, it told some stories worth telling and had some ideas worth having but it was also burdened by the naive idealism of it's creator and as a result, alot of it has not held up well over time, sounding preachy and selfricheous, especially regarding the idealized quazi-socialist utopia portrayed. it's characters, while interesting were generally 2 dimensional and static and, except for the big three were usually interchangeable. i generally regard it the same way i regard shakespeare good, but overrated and generally held on a higher pedestal than it deserves. alot of people hold him as the greatest writer ever, simply because that's what everyone else says, and anyone with a differing opinion is marginalized as an uncultured simp.


now, i've stated my position, and you've stated yours. i intend to leave it at that if you don't mind, as i have no interest in getting in a massive nerdfight in this thread about an online rollplaying game about a show that got canceled in 2002.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 11:25:19 AM by Zeek » Logged
Aguirre
Newbie
*
Posts: 34



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 09:35:50 AM »


Hah! I watched Spocks Brain yesterday! Good episode!

in closing, i like startrek. tos was a good show for it's time, it told some stories worth telling and had some ideas worth having but it was also burdened by the naive idealism of it's creator and as a result, alot of it has not held up well over time, sounding preachy and selfricheous. it's characters, while interesting were generally 2 dimensional and static and, except for the big three were usually interchangeable. i generally regard it the same way i regard shakespeare good, but overrated and generally held on a higher pedestal than it deserves. alot of people hold him as the greatest writer ever, simply because that's what everyone else says, and anyone with a differing opinion is marginalized as an uncultured simp.

Ofcourse i is simple, naive and old fashioned, but it's those things that make the show so cool. For example in "Rage" Spock doesn' won't to tell the Kirk who he's acting strange and why he needs to go on Volcan explaining it is taboo. Nowadays every more or less thoughtfull man would who knows what cultural relativism is (and a captain of a star ship should know how to deal with different cultures) would know you shouldn't press too hard when it comes to taboo. But Kirk NEEDS to know, which makes me and my flatmate burst into laughter comenting : "Way the go Kirk!  nanananana the volcan cultures taboo!"
It's Old School and doesn't try to look serious and ambitious cause it isn't. I think it's stupid comparingd startrek TOS and b5, I did it just for laughs and to show where my sympathies lie (that's why I was stunned by Zeeks outrage). I like the naive vintage style more than the "oh so ambitious SF" (which is bullknit, it's just modern!). When I want something interesting in and with depth in SF I watch Oddysey 2001, Solaris or Lunaya Raduga. I watch TOS cause it's funny and fun. Grin
Logged

Viva unemployed!
Zeek
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 487



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 10:26:16 AM »

outrage? did i sound outraged?
* Zeek rereads his last few posts
ok, i guess that might have looked abit outraged. but really, no outrage on this end, just bordom and a longish buss ride.
 and looking at it now, i think there might have been abit of a communication failure there. when i said “b5>startrek” i did not mean the origional series, i meant the franchise as a whole. mostly the later shows with their lazy writing and general lack of respect for the audience. my sarcastic little rant after that was really just an attempt to say why i liked the show in a way that might be funny. i was more comparing it to standard holywood tv drama in general than anything in particular. especially old startrek, that's like comparing arthur c clark to flash gordon. it does not work.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 11:25:44 AM by Zeek » Logged
oldmeatwadjm
Full Member
***
Posts: 110


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 12:38:34 PM »

I stay out Sci-Fi discussion, because I accidentally got in the middle of an argument between Star Trek Fans and Star Wars Fans, on who was more powerful. This was a error that I will make again.
Logged
Zeek
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 487



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 01:09:32 PM »

ooh, that there's a bad one.

and yeah, i generally stay out of it to.
usually 
Logged
Aguirre
Newbie
*
Posts: 34



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 02:42:02 PM »

outrage? did i sound outraged?
* Zeek rereads his last few posts
ok, i guess that might have looked abit outraged. but really, no outrage on this end, just bordom and a longish buss ride.
 and looking at it now, i think there might have been abit of a communication failure there. when i said “b5>startrek” i did not mean the origional series, i meant the franchise as a whole. mostly the later shows with their lazy writing and general lack of respect for the audience. my sarcastic little rant after that was really just an attempt to say why i liked the show in a way that might be funny. i was more comparing it to standard holywood tv drama in general than anything in particular. especially old startrek, that's like comparing arthur c clark to flash gordon. it does not work.


none on this side either   I wrote the post right before going to school in a hurry, and now I see it doesn't really make much sense. I don't like startrek beside TOS. I prefer star wars *ready to dodge any sharp objects thrown at him*
Logged

Viva unemployed!
Jack Bauer
Full Member
***
Posts: 187


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 07:10:05 PM »


none on this side either   I wrote the post right before going to school in a hurry, and now I see it doesn't really make much sense. I don't like startrek beside TOS. I prefer star wars *ready to dodge any sharp objects thrown at him*

As long as you're talking original Star Wars and not that bull:palm: prequel trilogy I got no problem. It's a good movie trilogy, space samurai fighting evil Imperialists bent on expanding a corrupt empire, it's a great metaphor for colonialism and the struggles of the third world to maintain their culture and heritage. Truth be told my favorite sci-fi series is Dune, not that crappy sci-fi channel movie one but the one movie from the 70s with Patrick Stewart.
Logged

I'm an American nationalist and a registered Libertarian. I've been called a xenophobe but I'm not. I just happen to believe America is the best country and the other countries just aren't as good, that used to be called patriotism.

"Two Jews walk into a bar and that bar was called damnation. Praise his name." -Rev. Jimmy

Are you ready to ask her that big question...."Will you get me another beer?"
Zeek
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 487



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 07:48:28 PM »

dune pwns all, but only the books.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!