Whistles and Shouts

[Maunder]

Seems like no one is interacting on the wiki anymore.  
  http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Suggestions
So, I was forced to register on the forums to post this idea for discussion.  Please help me improve it!
  http://wiki.shartak.com/index.php/Suggestions:Game_mechanics#Whistles_and_Shouts

Whistles and Shouts
default skills for all classes

If spirits can scream, why can't living people?
Humans should be able to shout and whistle, and be heard at some distance.

• A whistle would be heard by other players within 3 squares of the whistler, and costs 1AP; a shout can be heard up to 5 squares and costs 2AP. [I am calculating distance the cartesian way: 1.4 across a diagonal, so a range 3 whistle reaches only two diagonal squares away (2.8 ).]
• Both shouts and whistles would give the listener an indication of cardinal direction: "Someone whistled to the (northeast)."
  
• A shout should allow the shouter to express himself: up to four or five syllables, perhaps.  Listeners who do not fully understand the language (indicated by the Expert Language skill), or who are more than 3 squares away from the shouter, however, will not be able make out the words. [**]
  
• Both shouts and whistles can penetrate a hut's walls, but range (for hearing, understanding, and identifying!) is reduced by 2 for sounds traversing the wall in either direction.  Thus a shout inside a hut can only be understood by those inside and outside the hut, and heard at most 3 squares away.
  
• A shout should reveal the shouter's gender. "From the (north), you hear a (female) voice shout..."
  
• Listeners from the same town as the shouter or who have the shouter on their contacts list have a good chance of recognizing the shouter's voice when hearing the shout: "From the south, you hear Maunder shout...".  The chance of recognition depends on the range, perhaps: 100% at range 0 (same square), -15% per additional square, down to 25% at maximum range 5.  Note: travelling through a hut's walls reduces identification chance by the two squares mentioned above (-20%).
  
• Whistles or shouts should attract angry beasts (ferocious tigers, rampaging elephants, and the like), most of which have more sensitive ears than humans and can hear them at greater range!  Other aggressive animals might be similarly attracted, at some probability (but not too high-- makes hunting too easy!) Some other animals might be scared away by shouting (certain probability for each species?).
• Addition: Spirits will hear the same message as a living player when in the same location as the whistler/shouter, but cannot hear whistles or shouts at any distance.   (There is no justification for this rule: it just differentiates the human noisemaking skill and experience from those of the spirits.)
  

I opted to suggest whistle not be a learned skill; after all, what pirate or native can't whistle?  I'd be interested to hear an argument that whistling should be learned.

[**] Enforcing the limit on shout communication is the hardest implementation challenge of my idea.  Suggestion to the developer:

• (1) each word in the shout must have at least one vowel group;
• (2) a vowel group can have at most two vowels, so a string of three is counted as two vowel groups;
• (3) no shouted message can have more than 5 vowel groups.

In the longer term, a bit more difficult-to-implement suggestion: the shout message could be mangled in the same way the languages are, and possibly vary the intelligibility by distance.

Game Play
Effectively the skills are a quite restricted form of mass communication, that saves a few AP for groups of nearby characters working together.  They allows groups of characters to actually -play- as groups, rather than as bunches of individuals.  These skills allow for more role playing, and also aid players somewhat working cooperatively, for example, either to attack or defend a town, or track and kill a giant squid.  Apart from satisfying the false goal of being realistic, encouraging cooperation is good for overall gameplay!  In addition, the atmosphere of the game changes a bit (for the better, I think in this case) if one can know something about events not directly witnessed.  Finally, implementing this suggestion opens up the possibility of class-specific subskills.

The range suggested allows a whistle to cover all the 5x5 map segment a person can see in the game interface, plus exactly four locations outside of it (3 spaces directly N, E, S, and W).  Therefore, occasionally you might be alerting someone unintentionally with your whistle.  
Alternatively, the shout allows you to communicate a brief message, but, because it reaches a wider area, at much greater risk that unintended listeners will hear it.  [Clarifying: Only a listener within range 3, however, will have a chance at understanding it: exactly the same area as the whistle.  Listeners further away will just hear that someone shouted.]
Of course, in either case, a hut's walls will also hide potential listeners from the shouter/whistler.

Abusing these skills for spam purposes is possible; but these skills have an AP cost, while talking doesn't!  Addition: Only grant the skills to characters upon reaching level 5, to discourage creating new characters whose sole purpose is to spam.

[Edit: added a few details and clarification based on discussion.]

Update: If any of the above is unclear to the dear reader, a gory-details description of implementing the above is written on my wiki page.  Go there to see a pretty picture showing the ranges I am suggesting for these skills, etc.

[Ahnaom]

Very interesting and nice idea.

Just some notes...

() There is no gender as of now, unless you specify it somewhere in your profile. Instead of male/female voice one could recognize outsider/native and maybe the person's name if he/she is in the contact list.

() I would increase AP cost a bit to reduce spamming. 5 ap for 5x5 shout and 3 ap for 3x3 area. Also, there could be a limit of 2-3 such actions in 24 hours.

() It might be better start with simplified game mechanics: 3x3 and 5x5, the hut walls reduce it by n units, possible recognition of the shouter if he/she is on the contact list, attracting angry animals.
If that would work, more complicated things can be added later.

() I have no idea what vowel groups are and why is it important to implement their check. Could you give some examples?

EDIT: now that I think about it... do we really need two areas for shouting? 5x5 would be enough in most cases and less confusing for new players.

[Swarm]

I like this idea, but do you think you should be able to get a skill that lets you recognize who is screaming, not the % chance of you hearing who had screamed?  It works the same way as you recognize spirits with spirit recognition.
You need to be level 10 or higher to get "shouter recognition"

How about only animals that attack unprovoked (shargles, bears, sharks, giant spiders, rats, etc.) follow/go to you when you scream, not just the very deadly animals?

[yodas minion]

maunders....this was your 1st post and i believe it will be your BEST post....

   now about your suggesion! i love it! but there should be a gender selection in shartak.and unprovoked animals should come to your location eachtime you shot/whistle but animals that must be provoked to hit you will be scared away, and animals that come to you from a whistle/shout thy should have an added +1 damage because their mad now. it should be 1ap to whistle and 2ap to shout. ad you can only whistle 5 times a day and can only shout 7 times a day to help reduce spam but if the limit is too short. what about people defending a town? like say in derby neil and seether are fighitng off canibals 5 squares away from eachother and neil hits his limit and cannot shout to seether whe he dies. then youre screwed and the town is taken.  (e.g)

i do not understand the vowel thing so...you cn only have up to 20 characters in a singular shout.and there should be different types of whistles like 3 types.

wolf whiste/whistle a happy tune/whistle an eerie tune (necromancers )

but yeah i love the idea 

[Maunder]

(a) There is no gender as of now, unless you specify it somewhere in your profile. Instead of male/female voice one could recognize outsider/native and maybe the person's name if he/she is in the contact list.
(b) I would increase AP cost a bit to reduce spamming. 5 ap for 5x5 shout and 3 ap for 3x3 area. Also, there could be a limit of 2-3 such actions in 24 hours.
(c) It might be better start with simplified game mechanics: 3x3 and 5x5, the hut walls reduce it by n units, possible recognition of the shouter if he/she is on the contact list, attracting angry animals.
If that would work, more complicated things can be added later.
(d) I have no idea what vowel groups are and why is it important to implement their check. Could you give some examples?

First, you seem to have misunderstood the range.  The 5x5 square that is visible to you in the interface includes squares to range 2.8.  When I suggest range 5, i mean up to 5 squares away from you, significantly beyond the visible map segment in the interface.
(a) good point: i had forgotten gender was all in our minds.  well, finally a reason to put it into the game!  however, i do -not- think one should be able to tell whether a whistle or shout is native or outsider -- except indirectly when you are hearing a shout and recognize the language.
(b) no.  part of the point here is to facilitate communication among groups, saving the AP of walking over to folks and talking to them for free.  5AP to cover just range 2?  i could probably walk to two locations within that range and talk all i want for the same cost.  if there is no AP savings for mass communication, even restricted as I've made it, then no one will bother, and a waste of time to implement.
(c) I like the idea of adding contact list people to those eligible for shout recognition. 
(d) this was a suggestion on implementation, to the developer.  Simon will understand it.  Let me give a couple examples so you understand what i'm talking about.  If you allow people to shout, say, 3 words, whats to prevent them from shouting "agriefercannibalisinhut37killed2has63hpremaining"?  or if you limit vowels, whats to prevent folks from shouting "cnnbl w clb kllng ht37 w 74hp rmnng"?  the shout implementation must allow communication but limit it effectively somehow, or else its not worth doing at all (it wouldn't be really different from whistling).

Simon can decide if using a different distance measure makes more sense, and the order to implement elements, or which elements might be dropped without affecting the whole.  Whistles could be implemented separately from shouts, for example, although they use similar mechanics.  That being said, I don't think measuring distance the cartesian way will necessarily be "confusing to newbies".

[yodas minion]

oh and if you have the person thats shouting in your contacts list or is from the same amp as you. then you should be able to recognize that shout/whistle.

[Maunder]

I like this idea, but do you think you should be able to get a skill that lets you recognize who is screaming, not the % chance of you hearing who had screamed?  It works the same way as you recognize spirits with spirit recognition.
You need to be level 10 or higher to get "shouter recognition"

How about only animals that attack unprovoked (shargles, bears, sharks, giant spiders, rats, etc.) follow/go to you when you scream, not just the very deadly animals?

I think the ability to recognize someone's shout should come from knowing them.  In game terms, that would mean:

• having grown up with them (from the same village), or, as you suggest,
• being friends with them (in contact list).

I like your idea to add the latter.  Still, I think recognition should not be guaranteed, but, as I suggested, depend on distance.  I don't think this recognition should be a separate skill.  How could you recognize a stranger's voice at a distance?  Only by witchcraft, I suppose!.

Yes, not -only- the enraged animals, but any aggressive ones could be similarly drawn in.  Clearly, if they're hungry or hunting, and you make noise, they're going to come investigate.  How about range 10 for animals to hear you, too much?.  But I still think it should be only a probability, rather than absolute.  Otherwise, hunting becomes too easy... whether squid or shargles.!

[Swarm]

Shargle hunting is banned by me and the shargle riders of the mountain and yoda. So far, I have seen NO SHARGLES AT ALL ON THE MOUNTAIN.

I'm glad you like my  add-on to the idea

[yodas minion]

 But I still think it should be only a probability, rather than absolute.  Otherwise, hunting becomes too easy... whether squid or shargles.!

say that in the caves and you might get killed...

but the 10 range for animals to hear would be fine. and any animals like deer or stag should have a 15 range tohear it. and then they run like 3 squares away per half hour.and they keep running for 5hours then they are calm.

[Maunder]

To reduce the chances of newbies, or angry people, from creating accounts solely to shout spam, the skills should be granted at maybe level 3 and above (but still at no XP cost).

[yodas minion]

you dont get any xp for shouting/whistling and you should be able to shout at level 5+ because you can get to level 3 easy the first half hour you make that account.  it possible for people to get lvl 10 at least when they first make their character.

[Swarm]

No, level 10-15.  anyone can easily get 3 skills. Just go to trader's hut, trade, kill guard dogs, and pk.  Why would anyone want to shout spam in the first place?  This is an advanced skill, so you have to be level 10 to get it. (or 12?)

This skill should only be available to Soldier/Warriors, scouts/trailblazers, umm. let me think.that's it.  Maybe pirates?  For warriors it's called whooping cry.
For soldiers it's called ..... uh shout.. or something lol.

Scouts/(the outsider version of scout, I'm so dumb I forgot what it's called) should definitly get it, because all they have is trailblazing. and up to 85AP.  That's it.

[yodas minion]

No, level 10-15.  anyone can easily get 3 skills. Just go to trader's hut, trade, kill guard dogs, and pk.  Why would anyone want to shout spam in the first place?  This is an advanced skill, so you have to be level 10 to get it. (or 12?)

This skill should only be available to Soldier/Warriors, scouts/trailblazers, umm. let me think.that's it.

why only them? it should be available for every class at least level 5. and swarm i personelly think you would shout spam becase you carved in the raktam weapons and medical hut "peanus" so i dont see why you wouldnt shout your spam out. 

  i wouldnt think too many people would spam it in the first place so it should be fine. and maybe we could have a report abuse option ingame so that if someone sams alot we can report them and then their not aloud to shout/whistle/speak for a day? and then repeat offences you could not be able to shout/whistle/speak for a week or something.

[Swarm]

But I believe that not everyclass should get it, because if you think about it, some classes already have lots of skills.  Shaman have like 4, scientists have 4, settlers and villagers have 3-4 , pirates have 3, cannibals have 2 (2 powerful ones), soldier/warriors have 2 , and scouts/??? have 1.

I know that some classes have more HP than others, but I think that scouts/??? are getting jipped.  I don't think that shamans/doctors should get it anyway. Pirates are known for their shouts.

[yodas minion]

but it wont be a skill! is just an added featue the same as talking and emoting. it would be like the shout option in UD (i think it has 1) and in q2019 and dont forget about shintolin either. so it wouldnt be too big of a deal but it would be for everyone.